Comments on: 1905 in Italy (2) http://leggiamotronti.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/1905-in-italy-2/ Notes on Mario Tronti Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:29:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1-alpha by: Nate http://leggiamotronti.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/1905-in-italy-2/#comment-27 Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:20:03 +0000 http://leggiamotronti.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/1905-in-italy-2/#comment-27 hey gang, Eric, do you want a copy of the book in Spanish? The way I really learned Spanish was by reading it, if you start w/ the stuff you've read in English that's not a bad way to go. By the end of that you might feel up to tackling the rest. Let me know, I think I can hook you up. I'm sorry I've dropped off here. Among other things, I mailed my copy of the book to a friend, it'll be back to me soon. I've also just been snowed under with school and life and union stuff. I'm planning on getting a little more out from under soon, and using Angela's proposal to read Strategy of the Refusal as a way to kickstart myself back into reading the book. I also printed out all the notes posted on this blog today, to review. It's a lot of material. Not that length alone is a mark of quality (certainly with my own posts) but it does feel pretty cool, like we're doing something substantial here. I hope you're both well. More soon. un abraccio, Nate hey gang,
Eric, do you want a copy of the book in Spanish? The way I really learned Spanish was by reading it, if you start w/ the stuff you’ve read in English that’s not a bad way to go. By the end of that you might feel up to tackling the rest. Let me know, I think I can hook you up.
I’m sorry I’ve dropped off here. Among other things, I mailed my copy of the book to a friend, it’ll be back to me soon. I’ve also just been snowed under with school and life and union stuff. I’m planning on getting a little more out from under soon, and using Angela’s proposal to read Strategy of the Refusal as a way to kickstart myself back into reading the book. I also printed out all the notes posted on this blog today, to review. It’s a lot of material. Not that length alone is a mark of quality (certainly with my own posts) but it does feel pretty cool, like we’re doing something substantial here. I hope you’re both well. More soon.
un abraccio,
Nate

]]> by: Alex http://leggiamotronti.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/1905-in-italy-2/#comment-26 Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:48:06 +0000 http://leggiamotronti.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/1905-in-italy-2/#comment-26 Hi Eric, I agree that this is what Tronti seems to be saying in this chapter as well as parts of other chapters including Lenin in England. But he seems to advocate a Leninist party quite strongly in other places. I don't want to comment to much right now since I want to reread the following chapter, Class and Party. I have scribbled some notes in the margins such as "Tronti sees the party as the collective brain of the movement" so I am going to reread this carefully and attempt to translate the chapter with the aid of an online traslation tool and post it here. Maybe I am not getting some subtle points he's making but right now it seems to me that there are two very different Trontis on the question of organization depending on the chapter. I'll get back to this question in more detail after I find the time to read and translate Class and Party. Hi Eric,

I agree that this is what Tronti seems to be saying in this chapter as well as parts of other chapters including Lenin in England. But he seems to advocate a Leninist party quite strongly in other places. I don’t want to comment to much right now since I want to reread the following chapter, Class and Party. I have scribbled some notes in the margins such as “Tronti sees the party as the collective brain of the movement” so I am going to reread this carefully and attempt to translate the chapter with the aid of an online traslation tool and post it here. Maybe I am not getting some subtle points he’s making but right now it seems to me that there are two very different Trontis on the question of organization depending on the chapter. I’ll get back to this question in more detail after I find the time to read and translate Class and Party.

]]> by: Eric http://leggiamotronti.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/1905-in-italy-2/#comment-25 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:12:07 +0000 http://leggiamotronti.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/1905-in-italy-2/#comment-25 Thanks for these notes. They are excellent, and they make me really frustrated that I can't read Italian (I probably could read Tronti in Spanish, but would take me a year and a half for each chapter). Generally, your reading here seems to confirm the impression I got from the "Lenin in England" chapter, namely, that Tronti is (1) not interested in describing a new organizational form and (2) advocating a turn away from the classical political party. Re. (1): As you write: "On the terrain of practice, the objective conditions present will always prove determinant on questions of organization. This part seems to put a damper on his previous statements on organization that seem much more proscriptive." He hinted at this in "Lenin in England," but here he avers quite openly that no transcendent power will determine organization, that the "correct" form will necessarily discover itself in action and be contingent and changeable. Re (2): You write: " Tronti advocates the blocking of a political solution to the contemporary Italian crisis within production, struggle that will lead to innovations of organization, raising the specter of a true political struggle, not one over government but of power, of the modification of the relations of power between classes." To me, this is a complete abnegation of the party, specifically, and "official organization," more generally. Rejecting a struggle over government is also a denial of the party, he seems to be saying, while a fight over power requires the presence of an unmediated working class. The business about "the new" seems like a red herring to me. Anything can be fetishized, and if the proper organization is discovered in struggle, then its novelty or archaism will be known, right? Thanks for these notes. They are excellent, and they make me really frustrated that I can’t read Italian (I probably could read Tronti in Spanish, but would take me a year and a half for each chapter).

Generally, your reading here seems to confirm the impression I got from the “Lenin in England” chapter, namely, that Tronti is (1) not interested in describing a new organizational form and (2) advocating a turn away from the classical political party. Re. (1): As you write: “On the terrain of practice, the objective conditions present will always prove determinant on questions of organization. This part seems to put a damper on his previous statements on organization that seem much more proscriptive.” He hinted at this in “Lenin in England,” but here he avers quite openly that no transcendent power will determine organization, that the “correct” form will necessarily discover itself in action and be contingent and changeable.

Re (2): You write: ” Tronti advocates the blocking of a political solution to the contemporary Italian crisis within production, struggle that will lead to innovations of organization, raising the specter of a true political struggle, not one over government but of power, of the modification of the relations of power between classes.” To me, this is a complete abnegation of the party, specifically, and “official organization,” more generally. Rejecting a struggle over government is also a denial of the party, he seems to be saying, while a fight over power requires the presence of an unmediated working class.

The business about “the new” seems like a red herring to me. Anything can be fetishized, and if the proper organization is discovered in struggle, then its novelty or archaism will be known, right?

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